Monday, August 10, 2009

Lessons Learned From Students Part 1 of 5- The Admiral

Hey guys,

Lately I’ve been pouring over a ton of data from the guys in 12M2M and my other private coaching students and a few things have really jumped out at me. In fact I would say some of the BEST realizations about Game and Dating have come from students of mine.

This got me thinking, since I’ve trained some of the best guys out there from Ozzie over at RSD, to Future at Love Systems, I wanted to share what I’ve learned from various guys I taught over the years.

The first guy I want to talk about is actually a member of my private small group coaching program. This was the group of guys I have been training since we put up a small notice for private training in small groups a few months ago.

This guy we’ll call The Admiral. The Admiral is a little bit on the older side, he was 41 when I started training him and the other two guys in this small group. He’d also just come out of a divorce, about a year before joining up with me. This is actually not that uncommon as about 33% of all students are fresh out of long term relationships.

The reason that he wanted to get better with women was not to become some sort of crazy player, instead he wanted to find a girl he could be in a long term relationship with.

There was only one problem, he wanted to date younger women, but was terrified to approach them. This problem was pretty persistent. In fact we had 6 straight 45 minute long phone consultations where the Admiral and I discussed the reasons behind these beliefs and various tactics and techniques he could try.

Ultimately from The Admiral, I learned a couple of things.

The first thing I learned was the importance of multiple types of reframes. In NLP they talk about this strategy in terms of opening up potential maps. In the Admiral the first 5 maps we opened up weren’t effective.

We started out with a simple positive prior intention reframe, where we tried to reframe his uneasiness with younger women as being related to wanting soo badly to be in a relationship again. That didn’t work.

Neither did Counter Examples of which I had him keep a pad and paper for recording anytime he saw an older man with a younger woman.

In fact we went halfway through my NLP reframing manuals…

Ultimately I learned that to really get to the bottom of someone’s internal issues you have to understand the ways they internally motivate themselves. There’s no point in telling a guy like The Admiral to quit being a pussy, or trying to reframe a guy with social anxiety.

Ultimately we found a solution for The Admiral’s issue by examining his idea of his own identity ( A creepy older guy hitting on younger girls because he was lonely) Because his early attempts at trying to talk to younger women were weird he had accepted that it was him and not simply his behaviors. We had a major breakthrough when he told me he was NOT the kind of person that judges people on their behaviors alone. Which didn’t really gell with the way he was judging himself with women.

We also had him start a daily wake-up routine where he would mentally practice approaching a hot younger woman. This sort of psycho-cybernetics practice can be a major boost for guys if they actually do it daily, as I made sure the Admiral was doing.

I made sure he had actually made progress this last bootcamp. During the Day Game portion I made him approach girls that looked to be 18-20 years. After 4-5 approaches he was hooking these girls on moving approaches easily.

He ended up with 3 phone numbers that day from girls between 20-24.

The Admiral kept the momentum up and is actually now in a committed relationship with a 26 year old woman he met at his gym.

Ultimately, I learned that you NEVER know when a lightbulb is going to go off in a student’s head and they’ll be able to make open new maps and change their behaviors. Plus I learned a ton about different types of reframes, affirmations and mental rehearsal.



  1. Benzene5:29 PM

    Hey John I really appreciate that you mentioned a bit on mentally rehearsing going through a set. I always thought I was odd and lame for doing so but now that you mentioned it, and the student example, I can see some importance in it.

  2. Anonymous6:52 PM

    Great post Jon, I'm looking forward to the next four in the series.

  3. Rodney7:29 PM

    Gotta admit I am afraid of being seen as the "creepy older guy" too.

    So would you recommend this course for any guy out there with this issue?
    1. realize it's your behaviour and not YOU (behaviour can be changed)
    2. mentally rehearse approaching daily
    3. get out and approach until you realise this limitation/fear is only in your head

  4. can we get some thoughts on the best way to learn NLP

  5. can we get some thoughts on how to best learn NLP

  6. Anonymous9:41 AM

    Just started following you blog from the Jerry Sienfield post. I like to see you as another guy ntos ome pua god and this grounds you in my mind.

    super good

    Mikey B

  7. Anonymous9:59 AM

    Yes as an "older" guy (past 40), is what other helpful ideas can you provide? I have purchased some other products on dating younger women and most are a real joke. They tell you to dress up in suits, hang around colleges, find female friends and bring them in with you to clubs - I mean come on, lets get real here. Your idea(s) seems to be the only good ones out there.

  8. Hey Jon,

    Awesome post bro,

    Definitely your right on target with Affirmations prior to approach but i learned something similar but different recently that helped me out a lot in most areas of life because I am a stubborn bastard at times....

    It's called Afformations, it's asking a positive affirming question such as,

    "Why am I so good with getting hot women to like me?"

    Asking it forces your brain to do what it knows how to do best, answer your question, and usually you get it back (if it was in a positive sense)... as, "because you are great you look good,etc"

    Hope this helps out as well.

  9. Markus12:25 PM

    Great story.

    I'm not surprised the Psycho-Cybernetics worked at all.

    In my experience, the root of sticking points really lay in the subconscious. So, using the conscious mind ( via reframing, a conscious mind technique ) is like solving a math problem with colors.

    Since the unconscious communicates in symbols, the best way to 'talk to it' is in symbols. Well, using your imagination proactively is making symbols in the mind. This way the unconscious can stand a chance of grasping what the conscious mind is telling it.

    So, I've been through a number of NLP, Self Help, and Tony Robbins books. Of course they CAN'T work, they can't, they're using the wrong tool for the job.

    So, I'd just junk all that. And go into the world of symbols, that's how the unconscious communicates to us.

    This is like a muscle too. The more you do it, the better you get at it.

    The best product I've seen for this is by Paul Mckenna, called "Hypnosis" or something...I can't remember. It's old, and it gets straight to the fluff.

    He says ALL the right things within 18 minutes.

    Close your eyes.
    see yourself ( a visual )
    hear what's going on ( auditory)
    feel the air( kinesthetic)
    smell the smell ( olfactory)

    There you go. If a guy practices this enough, if something is scaring him....he'll hit it in this imagination exercise, and then can talk it out. Then, once it's talked out, move on to the next piece.

    There's really nothing better than this. It's so simple. The subconscious doesn't know the difference between reality and fantasy, if you don't believe me, have you ever had a dream that has knocked you on your ass....most people have....and it's not even real...that's the power of the subconscious, and it doesn't use reason to communicate with you, it uses symbols.

    If the sticking point is really threatening, you can expect a lot of resistance from the ego if you try this exercise "this is stupid" "hey I just remembered something" "have you tried x"...bla, bla, bla....rationalization.

    So, the deal here is not to bash down the ego...because there will be blowback, but, just accept it.

    "yes, I have seen x, would it be okay if we did the imagination exercise again, but this time, 3% stronger?"

    and work it like that.

  10. Anonymous5:06 PM

    Hi Sinn.

    Can you tell us how we can design our own waking excercises ?

    I'm carrying massive AA, and I'd love to get past it.

    If I could figure out how to do an excercise like the one that you gave the admiral, I would use it.