Wednesday, August 19, 2009

Lessons Learned From Students Part 5 of 5- Outkast

What’s up guys,

Allright today we are going to wrap up the 5 part series on Lessons I Have Learned From Students.

Today we’re gonna talk about a guy I NEVER thought was going to get better.

I called him Outkast because his big problem his whole life was that EVERYBODY told him he was a loser. He was the president of the chess club in High School (Literally), joined a fraternity in college and still didn’t lose his virginity until he was 25. Add to that the fact that Outkast had read and studied a ton of different pickup material. The word social robot would be an understatement. He had been to bootcamps with Mystery, Juggler, Stylelife, and Vin Dicarlo, and still could not consistently deal with his approach anxiety or get phone numbers.

It’s not even like there was anything that weird or off about Outkast. Once we stripped away the eyeliner, and handcuff belt, and 8 rings, he was actually a normal guy :) The problem was he had NEVER learned to socialize and had always been told he was a loser. As a result he felt like a loser intensely. So intensely that he thought the only way out was to “fake it til you make it” and act like some sort of superstar/player/pimp character from a b list movie.

The first thing I told Outkast was that he had to start from 0. He had to work first on building the most basic of social skills. These are the things that EVERY guy should polish up when he’s thinking about getting better with women. These are skills like starting conversations with strangers, fluff talk, conversational control, story-telling etc..

I started to see changes in Outkast right away. Since there was no pressure on him to “get laid” every time he went out anymore his approach anxiety became controllable almost right away. That was the good news.

The bad news was that he had NO idea what to say after he started a conversation. I witnessed it at our first bootcamp with the small group. He literally stood there in silence for a full 5 seconds after he opened. EVERY time.

That weekend I worked my ass off trying to get him to use any type of transition, routine, hell even a lame question is better than silence. None of this worked.

The problem was that the pressure mounted for Outkast again as soon as he started the conversation. Once he had opened he felt a ton of pressure to “ keep things going” or “ say the right thing.” And he had no clue how to do that.

I had taught him every tactic from observational transitions to preplanned cold reads. Nothing was getting through, when it hit me. The problem wasn’t the running out of things to say it was the lack of a way to handle the stress and sort through the options in a timely manner. Later on it turned out that this was the major problem for most guys when it came to running out of things to say.

So I started to look at stress management techniques and I settled upon the idea of using a combination of deep breathing and a preprepared acronym. In this case CGORP, standing for cold read, grounding story, observation or role play. By filling this in with preplanned routines Outkast was able to move on to keeping a conversation going for another 2 minutes.

This was not the last time Outkast had problems with knowing what to say. In fact that was the biggest thing I learned about game from Outkast. The importance of information personalization, timing, and stacking.

The information about using an acronym of preplanned routines was only useful once we had figured out how to relax Outkast right after the opener. It stopped being relevant when he ran through the sequence and was again stuck. But it was here that he could go back to an earlier skill he had learned. Basic conversation skills. This is what I like to call game symmetry.

Back in 2004 when I took my bootcamp at Project Hollywood, we thought that game was a linear process. First you learn how to open, then you learn how to attract, qualify etc… But the truth is that you have to teach to where the student is currently. Not what he could be with different beliefs or life experiences. This is what I like to call information stacking. You get the best results when you learn things in a specific order from the broadest skills to the most specific. I like to think about this as a triangle of game. The top of the triangle has to be supported by an extremely solid base. There are certain strange patterns of learning that increase results. In addition to Outkast I tested this theory by teaching the members of 12M2M how to do dates before they were getting them consistently. I had them take girls off the internet on a specifically set up date to learn the skillset of going on dates. Not surprisingly when the guys started getting dates they were getting laid on them…

Most guys teaching still adhere to the linear model of teaching instead of focusing on building symmetrical skills in students. The more students work on complimenting skillsets the more they experience results on the way through the learning process. This was the lesson I learned from Outkast.

Ultimately Outkast ended up dating two girls toward the end of the 6 month training. He’s currently still practicing his skillset but can finally control his dating life for the first time. Which is a true success story.

I hope you guys learned as much from reading these accounts as I did from writing them. Be sure to stay tuned for an opportunity to be a part of an upcoming training program.



PS: Be sure to sign up for my teleseminar tomorrow night on the 5 Secrets Of Exploding Your Game. Sign up at


  1. Anonymous2:32 PM

    information stacking = scaffolding theory (providing minimum necessary information+guidance to evolve a skill); thanks for the 5 lessons, they've been very useful.

  2. Jonsi2:34 PM

    This is my favorite post of yours yet. Many guys have much deeper anxiety and inner game issues than a bootcamp or two can fix, issues that are clinical, and take more work than growing a pair of balls and listening to your instructor. I'm glad you undertook the challenge to simultaneously improve the cognitive and behavioral components of his problems. You are ahead of anyone else out there, at least in dealing with students with those issues.

  3. He got laid at 25. Sounds great.
    Im 30 and still having trouble, I can definitely approach every hot girl i see and am willing to try anything.

    Any suggestions? Post them on my blog at

    I will try out any suggestions in field and let you know what works.

  4. Anonymous9:09 AM

    The problem I think is getting a social retard and teaching him some weird routines, models etc....

    I completely agree guys should learn NORMAL social skills and then build up upon that foundation.