Monday, April 16, 2012

You Can't Learn From "Naturals"

Looks like I lit a match with the Fat guy post so here's some more gas to throw on it.

The community is OBSESSED with the idea of "Naturals" these magical creatures that are good with women despite NEVER having studied or learned our tactics and techniques.

Seriously do a google search for Puas and naturals it's kinda crazy.

But here's the rub, you can't really learn from naturals because they don't know what they're doing that makes them successful, and they don't understand a guy who is unsuccessful with women's thoughts, fears and neurosises, which is why they give terrible advice like "Be yourself" or "Tell them what they want to hear" or my personal favorite " The key is to talk to girls like they're a piece of shit."

It'd be like asking Lebron James to explain how he drives the lane in an NBA game, he'd say something like " I grab the rebound, dribble down the court as quick as possible, jump, have 2-3 guys bounce off me then I lay it up."

It's an accurate representation of what's happening, but it's not gonna help someone who is 5-9, and white.

Which is exactly why "Naturals" can't help you, because you're not like them. I always laugh when guys say they've become "Naturals".

No you didn't.

You know why?

Because you still had to learn this stuff even if you now get success and it feels like you aren't doing anything ( I admit I totally was guilty of this for awhile)

It's like that scene in the Social Network when Zuckerburg says something like "If you invented Facebook you would have invented Facebook."

If you were a Natural you wouldn't be in the community unless you're a weirdo like Zan who needs validation and worshippers.

Get over the Natural thing guys it's not helping you.

JS-The King Of Content

38 comments:

  1. Anonymous1:11 PM

    I think being 'natural' is a destination more than a style of game. For example, once you can just go into set and improvise on the spot w/o need of routines, then you might be considered a natural.

    Could you write a post about 'swagger'? I want to try to develop the swagger of a guy like Tom Cruise, or better yet, Robin Hood.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. hahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahhahahahaa....

      Delete
    2. Anonymous10:31 AM

      Lol just cause u do shit naturally, doesnt mean you are a natural. Naturals never learned this stuff. Ur an effortless pua now floating on intention.

      Delete
    3. Anonymous1:36 PM

      "hahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahhahahahaa...."

      No joke hermano. I even have a picture of Jon wearing a Robin Hood hat I'll post sometime.

      Delete
  2. Anonymous4:24 PM

    Once again Jon pulls an arrow from his Quiver of Truth and hits the bullseye.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Anonymous4:31 PM

    Robin Hood? I think you missed Jon's classic podcast, "Why It's Hard to Swagger in Tights."

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous7:20 PM

      I'd wear tights if it helped me game. I'm already wearing stockings and a garter belt as it is.

      But really, Hood's universal appeal to women is based on his Swagger—his raw masculine energy, disregard for stupid social rules, and willingness to stand up for the helpless. Can you blame a woman for falling for a guy like this?

      Wear a Robin Hood hat to a club sometime and you'll see what I mean.

      If it helps, think Han Solo, but with a good heart.

      http://bit.ly/HLZbEr

      Delete
  4. Anonymous5:44 PM

    Spying on Naturals works and is very helpful

    ReplyDelete
  5. Anonymous6:39 PM

    I learn from naturals by watching them work and then field testing and tweaking to myself. Plus naturals actually get girls and have access to girls so why not hang out with them. If you actually have real world experience with girls you'll actually be able to take their advice into perspective without taking it too literally.

    ReplyDelete
  6. Anonymous7:39 PM

    Zan is also an ex-model and a lifelong sports jock - he just talks like a softie. Model crowd has helped him, he will be comfortable from having spent 10,000 hours in that world.

    Zan and Brent - 007 male model types - Sinn vs Brent, Cameron Teone vs Zan

    Who wins

    ReplyDelete
  7. Anonymous8:06 PM

    Watching "Naturals" as they interact with girls can be very helpful

    ReplyDelete
  8. Anonymous1:11 AM

    I asked my natural friends how can I attract women like you guys.My natural friends said ' confidence.'I asked 'How do I get confidence?'Their answer was ' hit the gym and have great looks.'
    I asked 'how do I get number from girls?"Girls give me their number 'I don't have to ask."

    You are so right Jon.Natural can't teach you but some guys observed Naturals and put into their findings to practice.

    If you are beginner,you can't learn from Naturals.Some gurus like Brad P,Gambler learned from their natural friends but I think their relationships was not student and teacher relationships.They hang out with the Naturals then they developed own techniques.They say this but I am not really sure it is truth.

    ReplyDelete
  9. Anonymous1:13 AM

    How about Natural attraction??You mentioned about Natural.Your inner game stuff said organically attract female not routine base.Is it just commercial pitch?

    ReplyDelete
  10. Naturals...

    I´ve seen guys that are good with girls. But who the hell knows if they are naturally born that way. Can one be born with all the compulsory ¨natural¨ requisites that would make him good with women?
    That would be kinda weird if you think about it. How fucked up would your life be if you were literally ¨a natural¨ in the sense of being born naturally good with women.
    Day 1. You´re born and the doctor slaps your ass. The nurses hear your endeering cry and fall head to toes in love with you. One gets wet everytime she hears you and all the nurses keep an eye on you while you´re in the hospital. Some give your mother the stinkeye for breastfeeding you and your mom is already feeling guilty for being attracted to you, but also very lucky that even though she is married she has had you in her - a place more intimate than your father, or any man for that matter, has ever gotten.

    I don´t really think family visits would go well, unless your idea of a good family meeting is seeing your female relatives having regular and incredibly brutal cat-fights over holding you in their arms ar changing you whenever you soil yourself, just so that they could see you naked and touch you.

    Your future is even more fucked up since socializing in various environments like kindergarten, school and the workplace is seriously affected by the fact that no woman can keep her hands off of you, female teachers want to teach you ¨forbidden knowledge¨, girls throwing their panties at you, the seniors throwing themselves at you, sorrority gils inviting you over for orgies and bosses / or the wives of bosses keep making a pass at you.

    The point is that you have no clue what you are doing but it seams that everything human that has a vagina wants to deperately get with you.


    Let´s be honest. That shit is unreal. There is nobody like that and if there were i pitty the poor fuck.

    Best advice with women i ever received:
    1.Stop being such a pussy.
    2.There is no need to be shy about anything you want. Ask for it. You´ll usually get it... from someone (not necessarily the first person you ask)
    3.Get it through your head that nobody gets all the hot women everytime.
    4.If you want to get laid, learn to make the difference between the impossible and the reasonably attainable. (You might want that gorgeous photoshopped model but for your pathetic ass that would be like trying to go to the moon on a firecracker the size of a golfball - the chubby nerd that is listening to you as you rave about your 85th level orc shaman while adding a lot to the conversation and smiling to you with a pleasant look in her eyes, is more attainable, easier to get and probably DTF if you play your cards right)

    ReplyDelete
  11. Naturals...

    I´ve seen guys that are good with girls. But who the hell knows if they are naturally born that way. Can one be born with all the compulsory ¨natural¨ requisites that would make him good with women?
    That would be kinda weird if you think about it. How fucked up would your life be if you were literally ¨a natural¨ in the sense of being born naturally good with women.
    Day 1. You´re born and the doctor slaps your ass. The nurses hear your endeering cry and fall head to toes in love with you. One gets wet everytime she hears you and all the nurses keep an eye on you while you´re in the hospital. Some give your mother the stinkeye for breastfeeding you and your mom is already feeling guilty for being attracted to you, but also very lucky that even though she is married she has had you in her - a place more intimate than your father, or any man for that matter, has ever gotten.

    I don´t really think family visits would go well, unless your idea of a good family meeting is seeing your female relatives having regular and incredibly brutal cat-fights over holding you in their arms ar changing you whenever you soil yourself, just so that they could see you naked and touch you.

    Your future is even more fucked up since socializing in various environments like kindergarten, school and the workplace is seriously affected by the fact that no woman can keep her hands off of you, female teachers want to teach you ¨forbidden knowledge¨, girls throwing their panties at you, the seniors throwing themselves at you, sorrority gils inviting you over for orgies and bosses / or the wives of bosses keep making a pass at you.

    The point is that you have no clue what you are doing but it seams that everything human that has a vagina wants to deperately get with you.


    Let´s be honest. That shit is unreal. There is nobody like that and if there were i pitty the poor fuck.

    Best advice with women i ever received:
    1.Stop being such a pussy.
    2.There is no need to be shy about anything you want. Ask for it. You´ll usually get it... from someone (not necessarily the first person you ask)
    3.Get it through your head that nobody gets all the hot women everytime.
    4.If you want to get laid, learn to make the difference between the impossible and the reasonably attainable. (You might want that gorgeous photoshopped model but for your pathetic ass that would be like trying to go to the moon on a firecracker the size of a golfball - the chubby nerd that is listening to you as you rave about your 85th level orc shaman while adding a lot to the conversation and smiling to you with a pleasant look in her eyes, is more attainable, easier to get and probably DTF if you play your cards right)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous10:57 AM

      "the chubby nerd that is listening to you as you rave about your 85th level orc shaman"

      No one wants to hear your negative crap.

      It took me the better part of senior year to reach level 85, plus I had to skip prom, but it was totally worth it. I get mad respect from my clan, plus I even have an online girlfriend who sometimes buys me stuff from my Amazon wishlist.

      So either add value to the conversation, or go back to Jersey Shore and keep 'roiding till your junk is smaller than my pet ferret's.

      PS—it's an orc mage, not orc shaman.

      Delete
    2. I was painting a picture man. No need to brag about your imaginary ...ahem "online" girlfriend (aka. dude in real life). I didn't say it was a negative thing to talk about what you are passionate about, I just picked a subject that is unlikely to get you laid by most girls.
      But hey! If WOW gets you laid on a regular basis, don't change man!

      Plus there is value in my reply but you are to set in your ways to see it.

      Delete
    3. Anonymous12:00 PM

      Hi, I apologize for overreacting. It's just that no one appreciates how hard is it reach level 85. It's like becoming a Navy Seal, but harder.

      I re-read your post and it contains lots of value. I've set a goal of having a real life girlfriend by age 21, which means I have 3 years. I hope that's long enough.

      So I have to take my life to the next level, and I'm starting by becoming a pizza delivery guy. That'll get me out of the house every night, plus I'll be meeting girls and making bank.

      From there I'm not sure what's next, maybe some peacocking, maybe some cold reads based on their pizza toppings, but I'll figure it out when I get there.

      BTW - My online girlfriend is definitely not a dude, I know this because she emailed me me a picture of herself.

      Delete
  12. Anonymous2:14 PM

    You can't learn from pua guys either, nearly all of them exaggerate or blatantly lie about their results with women.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous8:40 AM

      Well if you can't learn from naturals and you can't learn from pua guys I guess you can't learn from anyone or improve your game at all right? So you are saying no one including yourself will ever improve their skills with women. You are very intelligent..dumbass.

      Delete
    2. Anonymous8:33 AM

      the guy makes a good point, if he intended to or not, you should really learn from your own results with women

      Delete
  13. Anonymous11:12 PM

    Sinn is there any guru out there that you think could kick your ass in a brawl?

    ReplyDelete
  14. Anonymous11:14 PM

    "You can't learn from pua guys either, nearly all of them exaggerate or blatantly lie about their results with women."

    This is wrong. Yes a lot of guys exaggerate about their own success but there are guys out there that do give great advice. You can take the great advice and implement it in order to improve your own game.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous3:31 PM

      Go to puahate.com for the real info on these "gurus", 99% of pua guys just want your money. At least Sinn is honest about the realities of dating and doesn't blow smoke up peoples asses.

      Delete
    2. Anonymous1:32 PM

      I used to like PuaHate but it's now overrun with burnouts.

      Delete
  15. Anonymous1:56 AM

    The natural can also teach you to take a lot that happens in stride. Unlike most community guys, he's more clear that he's there to have fun. The community guy is thinking about techniques, the natural is there to have fun. That teaches you something -- how important it is to have a chill attitude of being there to enjoy yourself, and not feeling you control the outcomes, but that it's okay because you're having a good time. That chill attitude leads to less worry about rejection. If the woman didn't respond, the natural treats that as normal, but enjoys the approach anyway. The community guy wants to "debrief" after the approach -- whether he enjoyed it is hardly the point, or so he thinks. In that respect, community guys can be worse teachers than naturals, in that the enjoyment of the approach is emphasized a lot less than how much the girls liked you. But still they want you to be outcome-independent. Worry about how *she* reacted more than about how much *you* enjoyed yourself. In other words, her enjoyment matters more than yours. Potentially a self-defeating attitude to teach a guy.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous11:09 AM

      Good stuff, though debriefing is sometimes helpful for clearing sticking points.

      Learning basic social skills + going out + having fun = success.

      Delete
  16. Anonymous3:22 AM

    hi sinn its me the 5'3 guy. still waiting for your response about to what extent height matters in the game. i just want your honest opinion. am i thinking about it too much? does it matter only if i think it does?...btw, the plural form of neurosis is neuroses. thought that might help you avoid embarrassing conversations in the future. thanks.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous10:56 AM

      Jon—I'd also like to hear your answer to his question. Maybe you can write an article on dealing with physical stuff like height, below average looks, etc.

      In the meantime, I'll suggest a couple
      things:

      First, maybe you should reframe yourself from 'aspiring PUA' to 'friendly guy all the girls like'. Adopting the PUA frame creates extra anxiety b/c you feel the need to pull on a regular basis.

      Second, you can get social comfort with 99% of all girls you meet. From social comfort you can go into deep comfort. Beware of friend-zoning yourself though.

      Third, since you're short, reinforce your physical presence & masculinity by being physically fit with no extra fat. Most guys today are pretty soft, so any muscle tone sets you apart.

      Most importantly, try projecting a Robin Hood vibe. Watch Errol Flynn to see what I mean, but if not, Tom Cruise has done a pretty good job of achieving it.

      Delete
  17. Ablaze12:20 PM

    Anonymous 5'3 guy... Yes. Height matters. Some girls, key word "some" girls will not date you, just because of your height. Lucky for you, people come in all different shapes and sizes. You will have better luck with girls around your own height or shorter. Some girls, again, key word "some" girls don't care about height and they will look at other aspects of what you have going on.

    The best you can do, is workout, stretch, stand with good posture, and maybe get a spiked haircut to improve the appearance of your height, but even then, you can come across as try hard. It's just like a guy that's balding who tries to keep the front of his hair longer to overcompensate. He ends up looking even balder than before.

    The best you can do, is accept this about yourself. Don't focus on that which you cannot change, or at least don't dwell on it.

    60+ comments on the last two posts... I knew there were a bunch of shadow dwellers on here.

    Sinn what about fat martial artists? Aren't there martial artists out there who are fat and can beat up the average dudes? Of course they'll never be elite UFC fighters for the most part. There are a few chubby guys that have made their way up the ranks. Isn't it the same with pickup? A fat guy will never be "amazing" with women, but he might be able to consistently pull 5's or 6's, with an occasional fluke of an 8 or 9 slipping in there.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous6:30 PM

      I wish Ablaze would kill himself. Keyboard Jockey.

      Delete
  18. Anonymous12:50 PM

    ^to the guy who is 5'3. I'm 5'4 and a half. My solution was this...
    With enough preselection, height becomes a non-issue. Honest. Give it try. Thats how I overcame it. Be seen with hot girls taller than you while they are giving you huge IOI's. Problem solved. No girl will question you after seeing you get hot tall girls.

    ReplyDelete
  19. Anonymous6:06 PM

    I'm not 'in the community', I just like how this page is written and it helps me better understand how I work with women. I don't really use any of the material or buy the products, but I find this is great as a science.
    I'm a rather satisfied person, and I think claiming to be a 'natural' comes off as arrogant in these discussions. But I get around just fine by doing things my way (I'm sure theres room for improvement). My natural advice would be - fortune favors the brave.

    ReplyDelete
  20. Anonymous8:15 PM

    This may be coming out of left field, but I thought some of you might find it interesting. A good high school friend of mine was a natural, but maybe only a third of the time. The reason - he had some kind of manic depression. When he was feeling up he had this kind of confident swagger about him, was amazingly positive, and would just walk up to women and more times than not win them over. When he was down though he was an absolute wreck. Just extremely negative, self-critical, and nervous - couldn't talk to a girl to save his life. Despite the good times, it really tore him up and I always felt sorry for him.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous3:48 PM

      That's sound like bipolar, right?

      Delete
  21. Anonymous1:23 AM

    B.S. lol

    ReplyDelete
  22. Anonymous11:31 AM

    Hey,Vince Kelvin,Dj Fuji and Asian playbody are short guys who are good with women.

    If your limiting belief is your height,you should pick your model from Short guys who are good with women.

    I do not know who is good for fat men though.Are there any fat dating gurus who does live boot camp?I do not think so.

    Those short guys are not fat,fat.They care about fashion well.

    ReplyDelete
  23. Anonymous8:37 AM

    I'm curious why you slate Zan, his message seems noble and sincere.

    ReplyDelete