Monday, December 12, 2011

Re-visiting Pick-Up Dogma Part 2: On Demonstrating value

Hey There,

I want to pick back up with my Re-Visiting Pick-up dogma series. Last time we looked at being non-reactive and focused on the idea that having the RIGHT reaction is better than sitting there with no reaction.

Today I want to talk about that prickly Pick-up pear (try saying that 3 times fast) known as Demonstrating value.

The idea as taught back in the day by guys like Mystery went a little something like this:

You are a 5(no matter what you look like) and she is a 10(no matter what she thinks she is/the environment etc) so in order to get her interested, you need to simultaneously lower her value while raising your own.

This was done through the use of two tools: Negs and Demonstrations of value (DHV). Now I'm going to to be tackling Negs in their own separate post, so here we'll be focusing on the DHVs.

Back in the day the DHVs that were commonly taught were:

1. Pre-selection. The idea that demonstrating or verbalizing the idea that other women are attracted to you causes attraction. Verdict: True. Probably the best thing I got from Mystery (and it flies in the face of a lot of typical dating advice) is the idea that dropping a hot ex GF into conversation causes attraction and it does, though not as well as actual demonstration.
2. Leader of Men. The idea that being the leader of your group was inherently attractive. Also one of the lamest things you could possibly say to a woman " I'm a leader of men." Verdict: True in theory. It's a good piece of head nodding material as power is attractive. However it's hard to actually demonstrate this without seeming like you are OBVIOUSLY trying to impress the girl.
3. Protector of Loved Ones. Verdict: False. This is WAY more of a comfort thing. It's also one of those things that is difficult to use in field. It's not something you're going to just casually throw into the first few minutes without seemingly like you are qualifying yourself.

So there's no inherent problem with those other than them being kinda head nodding material, and being difficult to implement unless you naturally have good conversational skills and social intelligence which most students don't.

Now we need to move on to what the REAL problem with the whole DHV model really is; value is subjective. While there are things that are universally attractive to women, they also happen to be the things that most guys who find this stuff don't have going for them. These are things like money, looks, height, social status, etc... Outside of those things value is a subjective thing. What is valuable to a party girl at a club in LA is different from what is valuable to a professional girl out to dinner with her girlfriend at a trendy lounge in Seattle. Older women value certain things that younger women don't, and vice versa.

So the real challenge and skill of attraction is being able to figure out on the fly what this particular girl in front of you is going to value and then trying to demonstrate that. This also ties back into the whole idea that being non-reactive is bad because instead of being non-reactive we want to tailor our interaction to the girl we're talking to.

Which is why DHV routines are so hit or miss for students. Sometimes they work but other times they fall flat because you're using them at the wrong time with the wrong girl.

SO the key points to take from this article are:

There is no "value formula" that works every time. Instead value is subjective and is mostly based on the individual girl in front of you.

Therefore the MOST important part of attraction is being able to figure out WHAT the girl in front of you values and using that rather than a paint by numbers approach.

Hope that helps,

JS-The King Of Content


  1. dude isnt value survival and replication value? Like as a man valuable traits are social dominance (Frame-control), being in control, masculinity etc? Those are universal and has nothing to do with money or shit like that. And when u have integrated those into your personality you dont need to actively "dhv" no more, cause its autmatic and the majority of girls responds really well to you - altho you cant bed all just cause of that, but they WILL find you "cool" or whatever cause you have these traits.

  2. Untrue for #3! You can bring a kitten into the nightclub and hire an assassin to stab that kitten. When you save the kitten, the girl will regard you as a hero!

    Being a protector isn't the key, but offering security through strength is something that can be demonstrated the night you meet a girl. Is it an "attraction routine" in the sense that it comes out in five minutes? No. But picking a girl up or dipping her or guarding her from being jostled in a busy place or leading her confidently through a chaotic environment is definitely something that sends a signal through her body: this is a man.

    "Leader of Men" was Mystery's silly way of saying "confidence" without giving ground to any time that traditional advice was actually useful. Confidence, height, and preselection are damned near the only universal switches. It's just tough to talk about the intersection of strength, leadership, dominance, and power in a three word bullet point.

  3. Anonymous2:38 PM

    Future is so much smarter than Sinn it's not even funny. Go back to furry hats and fat 6s. The game has changed.

  4. number 3 is false. Pretty much every girl has her whole family tagged in pics on her facebook and have 300 people tagged as cousin, brother ( who are just their BFF+Family)... i ear shit like " my friends are my family" very often too. But yeah, it kinda has a confort vibe on it...

  5. Anonymous9:10 AM

    Awww the big shot "I don't read comments" has started blocking mine, lololololol. Fail.

  6. Ablaze9:08 PM

    Agreed, for the most part... This approach works well when the end result is to get the girl no matter what. I take a more balanced approach in the sense that I realize that I can't live in my own selfish bubble, refusing to bend to anyone in the world and, on the other side of the coin, I can't always be catering and calibrating to people around me.

    That being said, there was a time in my life when the goal was get laid no matter what.

    I find that my most satisfying pickups are when the girl meets me halfway. I'm not going to totally calibrate to what I think she wants and I'm not going to force her to completely calibrate to me.

    That's me, though. What you've posted is no doubt more effective for racking up numbers. Whether those numbers are as satisfying in the long run is another story.

  7. Anonymous4:08 PM

    I think the idea of trying to figure out what every girl values is too try-hard. Goes back to the idea of you can't get every girl, and it's not worth wasting too much time on girls who just don't like you.

  8. Anonymous10:20 PM

    unreal article man. Really helped! thanks a lot.

  9. Anonymous4:47 PM

    Hello Sinn I mean no disrespect but I only see you on video with fat 5s and 6s and you prance around them like gayboy is there a PUA you recommend who can teach how to get pretty girls? Sorry! I do not mean offensive!